From: Ray Fong [MSFT]
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:30:14 GMT
Subject: RE: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

>Is it possible to install a new SBS2003 server as a Domain Controller into an existing Active Directory?

SBS 2003 doesn't allow Trust relationship and it won't allow you to connect it to an existing domain. However, you could install SBS 2003 on top of the existing domain. In other words, you could install a second peer-to-peer DC to your existing domain, then inplace upgrade the second DC into the SBS. But once you do that, you introduce the limitation of the SBS such as no trust, all apps that come with SBS must be installed within the single SBS box, etc.

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:48:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

I have Win2003rtm installed as a member server in a SBS2000 network. Can I replicate the AD to the Win2003rtm server, remove it from the SBS2000 network and install SBS2003, using that copy of the AD?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Ray Fong [MSFT]
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:37:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory

Yes, but please make sure you remove (DCpromo) first SBS from the Win2003 AD. Otherwise, when you upgrade the Win2003 member server, it will tell you that another SBS is running on the same network because the AD still has the original SBS.

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:12:05 PDT
Subject: Re: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

What I'm really trying to do is migrate the domain to the new SBS. I will give the new SBS2003 the same name as the old one. Won't the old AD SID be used when SBS2003 is installed over the Win2003 OS?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: rayfong@online.microsoft.com (Ray Fong [MSFT])
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:38:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs


Yes, the plan will work. My point is you need to remove your SBS from the old domain after all the accounts are transfered to the new Win2003 server. If you simply "unplug" the old SBS machine from the domain, when you install SBS 2003 on top of the Win2003, the setup will know another SBS is still on the network somewhere as you never remove old SBS from the AD.

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:12:05 PDT
Subject: Re: Install SBS2003 into existing Active Directory
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

That is the way I thought it would work. The wording suggested I needed to take it out of the AD as well. Thanks.

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

So I was anxious to proceed.  Others were worrying about the same problem, and the answers were encouraging.  But things are not so simple as the following thread shows.

Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:12:20 PDT
Subject: Re: Help me upgrade från SBS4.5 to SBS2003!!
From: "Hollis D. Paul"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

In article , Göran Karlsson wrote:
> The thing is that I don´t want to migrate to a new domain. I´m planning to
> do this without having to rejoin all clients, copy profiles and so on. Do my
> plan still work?
>
You can easily manage the migration of the domain to SBS2000. The question is, can we go from SBS2000 to SBS2003 in the same manner. Ray said earlier that I can get the SBS2000 AD onto the Win2003 RTM server, but suggested I then had to DCPROMO the old SBS computer name out of the AD. But I really do want to retain that SID for use by the new SBS2003 server. Look for a reply Monday or Tuesday.

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Ray Fong [MSFT]
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:33:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Help me upgrade från SBS4.5 to SBS2003!!

Actually, you connect the Win2003 as a peer-to-peer DC to the SBS2k domain. Once you have all the AD account and FSMO transfer, then remove the SBS machine from the AD. When you remove the SBS machine, the AD is still kept on the Win2003 DC. You are not going to lose any AD during the migration. But if you could wait, I suggest to wait the SBS2003 RTM and the migration story will be more clearer at that point.

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:43:32 PDT
Subject: Re: Help me upgrade från SBS4.5 to SBS2003!!
From: "Hollis D. Paul" <Hollis@outlookbythesound.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

I fired up the Win2003 RTM server, which was installed as a member in the SBS2000 network. I attempted to add the AD role as a secondary controller in an existing domain. The Wizard came up, collected the info, and halted with a message saying \\obts01.OUTLOOKBYTHESOUND.COM could not manage the operation, because a network path had not been found. I then added 10.0.0.2 obts01 to the hosts file, restarted it, and it halted saying there was a DNS problem. Do I really have to install DNS, define a forward lookup zone, etc, when the member server is really in a secure nat configuration.

What should I really be doing here?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Ray Fong [MSFT]
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:22:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Help me upgrade från SBS4.5 to SBS2003!!

You don't have to install DNS on the Win2003 server, but please make sure you run the adprep.exe on the SBS when adding additonal Windows 2003 DC. Anyway, if the suggestion doesn't work, I suggest you to post your questions to SBS2k newsgroup at microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000

278875 Cannot Promote a Windows Server 2003 Domain Controller into a Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=278875

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

So, it was still the Best of Worlds.  I had my hot little discs, and a fuzzy idea of how to do it.  When I saw another thread asking about essentially the same process, I knew I wasn't alone in this world.  It was still fuzzy so I asked for documentation.

From: "Sander"
Subject: Use SBS in existing W2K domain
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:18:33 -0700
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs


I would like to "play" with SBS RC in our network. I was thinking of installing a member server, shutting down the PDC, install SBS and let the AD data replicate between SBS and the member server. Or option b; install SBS and seize the FSMO roles from the PDC. Is this possible, something tricky I forgot? Thanks again!
 

From: Keith P. Rutledge [MSFT]
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 23:46:54 GMT
Subject: RE: Use SBS in existing W2K domain

Hi Sander,

Yes both options are possible.

One nice feature of SBS2003 is that SBS allows for two SBS servers on one network for a time period to perform a migration or AD transfer.

Best Regards,

Keith Rutledge, MCSE NT4/2000
Microsoft Online Support Engineer
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

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Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:12:22 PDT
Subject: Re: Use SBS in existing W2K domain
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

Is there a KB or WhitePaper on this?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Keith P. Rutledge [MSFT]
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:03:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Use SBS in existing W2K domain

Hollis,

At this point in time there is not a KB or Whitepaper that address Migration since we still in Beta. Once we get closer to our RTM date then the final documentation should be released.

Best Regards,

Keith Rutledge, MCSE NT4/2000
Microsoft Online Support Engineer
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via
your newsreader so that others may learn and benefit
from your issue.
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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

This is no longer the best of worlds.  And notice the mantra of Wait for RTM and migration documents.  My concealed addiction to procrastination has been opened.  I waited.  (But it was not entirely just procrastination--chronic pain and lots of analgesics do remove the urgency of all but the essential activities.)  The SBS2003 RTM'd, and the SBS2003 Standard disc set appeared on the MSDN download section.

Then the following thread appeared.
 

Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:43:45 PDT
Subject: Re: MSDN new addition?
From: "Hollis D. Paul"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs
 

In article , Jonathan Maltz [MS-MVP] wrote:
> 09/26/2003 07:15 PM 36,323 PREMIUMINSTALLSTEPS.HTM
>
So, it looks like you install the STD Edition of SBS, then the Premium Technology Applications.

Is one supposed to do all the items on the To Do list before installing the Premium Technology apps? Or, is this the fourth disk to install before sitting down to work out the kinks?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Ray Fong [MSFT]
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:08:38 GMT
Subject: Re: MSDN new addition?

To do list is last.
Install SBS, Exchange, ShaerPoint first. Next, install the SQL/ISA.
Finally, finish the ToDoList.

Ray Fong
Microsoft SBS Product Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

So, I downloaded the fourth SBS2003 disc.  I knew what to do.  The sciatica pain had been mitigated and I was not using so many analgesics.  It was the best of worlds again.  The migration documents appeared.  I downloaded them, even read them, and printed what was relevant.  I also the printed release notes.  But I noticed that none of the migration papers really were about what I was trying to do--i.e., migrating to a member Win2003 server.  So I asked in the newsgroup.
 

Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:20 PST
Subject: Migration to a Win2K3 server
From: "Hollis D. Paul"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs


I want to do a test migration of my SBS2000 server onto a Win2K3 member server. I have the Chapter 3C-Upgrade Windows 2000 Server or Windows Server 2003, but that doesn't seem to be the process I want to use. I also have "Migrating from Win SBS2K or Win2K Server to Win SBS2K3. Can I just substitute Win2K3 for Win2K in that title line and be OK?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: Chris Puckett [MSFT]
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:22:13 GMT
Subject: RE: Migration to a Win2K3 server

Hello Hollis,

Using the "Migrating from Win SBS2K or Win2K Server to Win SBS2K3" whitepaper as a guide, you can substitute Win2K3 for Win SBS2K3 in the title line and be OK.

However, the Windows 2003 member server will need to be promoted to a domain controller in a new domain. Obviously, if you will not be running Exchange or SQL (for example) on the new server, you can skip the procedures on these subjects.

Chris Puckett, MCSE
Microsoft Small Business Server Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:12:18 PST
Subject: Re: Migration to a Win2K3 server
From: "Hollis D. Paul" <Hollis@outhousebythesound.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

Thanks, Chris. That makes sense. I will be doing the whole shebang, just to get a feel for what can go wrong.

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

So, it was still the best of worlds.  I had my discs, I had the documentation, what could go wrong?  I put the first disc of the SBS2003 set into the drive and, before I get a message about SBS2003, I get an error message.  Bummer--and back to the newsgroup!
 

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:01:09 PST
Subject: Migrating to a Win2K3 server which is not a domain controller
From: "Hollis D. Paul"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

Just to satisfy my latent masochist tendencies, I decided to do a test migration to a Win2k3 server, which is just a member server on my SBS2003 network. I have never made it a domain controller. I stuffed the SBS2003 CD1 into the drive and get the autorun screen that gives me the choice to Install or Browse. I click Install, and the first thing I get is a message saying it cannot find the AD, Quit now?

I read the chapter on upgrading a SBS2000 server to a SBS2003 server, and there is no indication that I need to prep the AD before anything happens. Do I have to make this server a domain controller before the migration can run?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: "Ricky Morris [MSFT]"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:30:58 GMT
Subject: RE: Migrating to a Win2K3 server which is not a domain controller

Hollis,

In your scenario, SBS 2003 setup is simply notifying you that the server is not a domain controller, which is true.

You cannot run a migration between a member server and a domain controller. Both servers must be domain controllers.

Best Regards,

Ricky
Ricky Morris, MCSE
Microsoft Platforms Support Engineer

More SBS Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/sbserver
and
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs
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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:57:33 PST
Subject: Re: Migrating to a Win2K3 server which is not a domain controller
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

So when I go to add the Domain Controller Role, I get to the point in the AD Installation wizard where I put in the qualified user name, and password, and get the following error: Wizard cannot gain access to the list of domains in the forest. It may be a dns problem. It refers me to http:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=5171 . The error is: The RPC Server is unavailable.

I have followed the instructions in that 5171 document--Troubleshooting Active Directory DNS errors in Windows 2000--even though this is a Win2003 server. I think I have a proper CNAME record pointing to the domain dns server. But I still get a no RPC Server available error message.

I looked in the services list, and found two RPC services listed. The first one was started automatically. I started the second one, and set it to start automatically. Still, it says no RPC Server is available.

What RPC server is it talking about?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

From: "Chris Ard [MSFT]"
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:26:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Migrating to a Win2K3 server which is not a domain controller

Are you trying to add the new server (the one that is going to run SBS) as a new domain in an existing forest?

SBS cannot be installed as anything other than the root DC in a forest so you will need to create a new forest if that is the case. If you are using a Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition CD (Not SBS), then you should not be having RPC errors while trying to join an existing domain or create a new domain. Make sure the user account you are using to add the new server has Enterprise Admin permissions in that domain.

Chris Ard
Small Business Server
Enterprise Platforms Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:17:40 PST
Subject: Re: Migrating to a Win2K3 server which is not a domain controller
From: "Hollis D. Paul"

In article  Chris Ard [MSFT] wrote:
> Are you trying to add the new server (the one that is going to run SBS) as
> a new domain in an existing forest?
>
No. I am trying to do a test run on a Win2003 RTM server that has been operating as a member server in the SBS2000 LAN, which only had the file server role installed. The plan is to do the install and disconnect it from the SBS2000 LAN.

Ricky Morris's message indicated that the Win2K3 server had to be a domain server before I can install SBS2K3 over it. Therefore I attempted to add the domain controller role as an AD controller in an existing domain--that is, the SBS2000 domain. Is there no way to do this?

When I was asking about this when only SBS2003 RC was out, it was suggested that I had to upgrade the schema of the SBS2000 AD, and then the Win2K3 would be able to connect, but I really should wait for the migration wizards of the full product. So I have waited. Is there no way to use the migration wizards to make connection to the SBS2000 AD?

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
 

Well, it is no longer the best of worlds when you want to migrate SBS2003 to a member Win2003 server in a SBS2000 network.  There was no further response in the last thread.  I infer that I have to disconnect the Win2003 from the SBS2000 network, install a new AD forest, then install SBS2003 over that.  Maybe I should ask if that scenario will ever be supported.  Then I could procrastinate a very long time.  Best to plunge ahead.